The Wrangler is NOT Too Expensive

"HammerheadFistpunch" (hammerheadfistpunch) 08/03/2015 at 18:03 • Filed to: Jeep, Wrangler, Rant

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In Andrews review of the Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Rubicon I heard a lot of people bitching and moaning about how it was too expensive...what?!

Maybe its just me but a range from $23,000-47,000 for something the size and weight of a wrangler doesn’t seem that strange.

A base model Wrangler Sport S gets you (Highlights):

Dana 30 front axle

Dana 44 rear axle

Full traction control suite (hill start assist, downhill assist, traction and stability control, trailer sway mitigation, roll over mitigation)

Full skid plates

Rated tow hooks

Part time 4x4 with low range transfer case

fog lamps

speed control

intermittent wipers

3.6 liter high feature V6

6 speed manual transmission

Cd with MP3 and steeringwheel control

Front and rear disc brakes

AC

etc.

For less than 25 grand. Why does that seem like a good deal to me? Do people not realize that to get a V6 Camry you start at $32,000?

“Oh well that’s the 2 door”, you say. Okay, add $2000 for 2 more doors, so $27,000 for a V6, 6 speed manual, 4 door 4x4 SUV with dual speed transfer case. No it doesn’t offer a ton of toys, but they don’t actually add much in terms of value anyway (cost to build vs cost to sell) and it has all the stuff that matters anyway.

For comparison sake, a base model AWD RAV4 is $26,000. So, all the 4 door Jeep you need vs the same basic level Cute ute for $1000 difference. To say nothing of the Jeeps advantage in size and power, or capability.

I don’t know why people think that paying $36,000 for a well equipped Rubicon is a ripoff either. I think people are constantly underestimating what new vehicles should cost.

Now I will say that I wish they were build with a little more care, but what do you expect for such low prices?

lone_liberal > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:12

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They are probably looking at what’s in the car not what’s under it when posting that stuff.

Bluecold > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:12

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‘Front and rear disc brakes’

you forgot to mention the rest of the rich standard equipment, including, but not limited to: radial tires, electric windshield wipers, synchromesh on all the gears (except reverse), dual circuit brakes, high and low beam headlights, seatbelts, airbags, and even headrests!

HammerheadFistpunch > Bluecold 08/03/2015 at 18:13

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You know, there are some vehicles that still have drum AND cost more though.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:15

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I feel like intermittent wipers shouldn’t be an option.

Bluecold > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:16

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I know there are vehicles that have drum brakes, but I thought those were limited to small, cheap citycars?
Paying more than 26k for a car with drum brakes is an outrage! Also, I do fully agree with the conclusion that jeeps do not seem to be terribly expensive for what you get.

nermal > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:17

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To be fair, the one in the article did have pretty much every available option, except a hard top.

That said, even the 4 dr Rubicon model with a few options can be had for well under $40k. For what you get, it’s decent value.

However, there’s no excuse for the build quality. They’ve been building the same dang thing for 8+ years, you’d think they got the process down by now. Especially for FCA’s #2 selling vehicle!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:17

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No, you're not going to take credit for Wrangler sales.

HammerheadFistpunch > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 08/03/2015 at 18:17

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HammerheadFistpunch > nermal 08/03/2015 at 18:18

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Yeah, poorly built is poorly built at any price.

HammerheadFistpunch > If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent 08/03/2015 at 18:19

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They aren’t, its standard. But you can find cheap cars without them. This is the barest of bones jeep (plus ac) so the fact that it comes with them is something.

HammerheadFistpunch > Bluecold 08/03/2015 at 18:24

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Yeah, drums or on their way out (thankfully) but the hot selling Tacoma still has em, even it super spec TRD Pro guise.

Grindintosecond > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:26

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I’ll save some money and get a Jeep with the old straight 6 that will go a million miles and never break....and I can work on it myself.

HammerheadFistpunch > Grindintosecond 08/03/2015 at 18:27

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Drove a TJ for a while. I would hate to own one as anything but a trail rig.

pjhusa > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:32

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BMW 320i standard features:

Tires

Wheels

Lights

A chassis

Steering wheel

Air vents

FlimFlamMan > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:35

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The resale is what has always amazed and frustrated me at the same time. I’ve come close to getting new and used Wranglers, and just couldn’t pull the trigger.

HammerheadFistpunch > pjhusa 08/03/2015 at 18:37

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I’m...not sure what you are getting at. Also, it comes with Automatic climate control, a 9 speaker stereo, power everything and adaptive cruise as standard...but it also starts at $33,000

HammerheadFistpunch > FlimFlamMan 08/03/2015 at 18:39

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yeah, I have a friend who bought a new Tacoma for the same reason...why buy used when new is the same price? I don’t understand their resale value either, its not like they are well made.

Grindintosecond > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:39

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I was thinking of a YJ before they started messing with the new emission head from ‘96-on. But, what else would one want a jeep for besides logging road exploration? A practical grocery getter? Denial!

pjhusa > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:40

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Crappy 6-speaker one

Manual seats, mirrors, etc.

No Bluetooth music streaming

Just mocking my favorite auto manufacturer for putting bare bones equipment. :)

FJ80WaitinForaLSV8 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:41

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Truth.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:42

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As much as I appreciate their offroad capability, they are terrible to live with. My friend actually bought a second daily driver/offroad toy because his kept breaking, including the “Indestructable” 4.0 I6. Third to my Dad’s ‘08 Ram and the GMT400, it was they worse thing I’ve ever driven. The only thing that makes the Ram worse, is what I assume is a lack of sway bars, because it’s body roll can launch shit, and I’ve been over my thoughts about the GMT400.

HammerheadFistpunch > pjhusa 08/03/2015 at 18:42

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hmm, I read 9 speakers as the base stereo, must be new.

HammerheadFistpunch > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 08/03/2015 at 18:44

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I drove around in a TJ for a while, and I’ve been in plenty of others (YJ, JK, etc) and yes...they are horrid “cars”. That being said, the aftermarket for them is unrivaled and a stock Rubicon is pretty capable right off the floor.

neededanewburner > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:53

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Mine was 26K, only major options being an auto transmission and AC. I really screwed myself by not researching and waiting to get one with 3.73 gears, but that’s what happens when you go in to test drive a Dart and buy a Jeep instead. I DD it 50 miles round trip, no complaints from me.

pjhusa > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 18:54

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I believe that you are talking about the premium H/K audio.

HammerheadFistpunch > pjhusa 08/03/2015 at 18:56

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“Anti-theft AM/FM stereo CD/MP3 player audio system with Radio Data System (RDS), and 7-channel 205-watt amplifier; the 9-speaker system includes 2 tweeters in the mirror triangles, 4 midrange speakers located in the door panel, 2 bass speakers located under the front seats and 1 midrange center channel speaker located on the dashboard.”

here in the “Standard features” page

Berang > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 19:12

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Normally when I see this sort of complaint, I find a price for the product from a few decades ago, calculate for inflation - and go “see, the price is basically the same - but you get a lot more for what you pay now!” - but when I did this for Jeeps the price is a lot higher. You get more, but you pay a lot more even accounting for inflation.

Also one needs to remember that cost of materials is only a very small part of a vehicle’s price. It’s why big cars have larger profit margins than small ones. The labor, design, and manufacturing costs are about the same for a small car as for a large one, but you can put a couple hundred dollars more material into a big car - and charge far more money for it on the basis of perceived value.

Speaking of design costs, I think the surprising thing about the Jeeps is that the design work probably costs a lot less than an average economy car like a Hyundai. It’s got a seperate frame and the body panels are simple and shallow, so tooling up for a new model can’t possibly be that expensive. As well most of the drive train parts have been around forever. So much of the design and tooling costs would be minimal compared to the average car on the road today.

And lastly, going back to perceived value - even if the design, components, manufacture still cost a huge amount - if the vehicle has apparently poor fit and finish, or cheap looking materials, then the consumer is still going to feel like they paid too much.

pjhusa > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 19:23

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Hmm. My 328xi has 7, I believe the 320i would have less or the same thing.

Chasaboo > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 19:36

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Jeeps are great chick cars.

quite98 > HammerheadFistpunch 08/03/2015 at 20:52

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It makes no sense. I bought a new 2015 Wrangler off the lot in April - admittedly with a supplier discount - and sold it back to a different Jeep dealer 6 weeks and 750 miles later, basically for the price that I paid for it new. They now have it for sale for more than the price of a new one. I don’t get it.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 07:56

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I think it’s viewed as crazy expensive because for a number of people it’s their weekend/summer car. Or it’s what they want for their weekend/summer car.

The same subset that complains the BRZ cost 27k

Destructive Tester > quite98 08/04/2015 at 12:39

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Sounds like you've stumbled on a brilliant "free" vehicle rental program...

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 13:08

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But a hard top 4 door rubi is still going to hit you for 40 grand. Sorry but that’s easily 5 thousand dollars worth of ‘brand image’

HammerheadFistpunch > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/04/2015 at 13:14

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is it? What do you get with the Rubicon:

Dana 44 front and rear axles

a super low transfer case

Electronically disconnecting sway bars

front and rear mechanical lockers

plus all the niceties you have to tack on from the base package.

Okay, now go and price a 4Runner or xTerra similarly equipped.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 13:33

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4 runner’s are a whole other world of why does this cost so much so I won’t even bother. But for 30k you get a dana 44 in the Xterra, rear locker, descent control (if auto trans) clutchless start (if 6mt) independent front suspension (yeah i get that if you are doing super cereal rock crawling that’s a bummer, but for the 95% of the time people are on a road it’s superior) nav/audio/heated seats, roof rack, skid plates, plus inconsequential stuff like fog-lights/off-road lamps but they both have those sorts of things as you mentioned.

I got one for 29k brand new not 2 months ago.

HammerheadFistpunch > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/04/2015 at 13:48

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Now add:

front locker - $1000 (not installed)

Atlas transfer case - $1000 not installed

Electronic sway bars - Cant find them but replacing them is ~$800

Bigger tires (32 inch vs 30 inch) - ~$100 per wheel price difference = $500

take away the retail upcharge and call it $2600

I’m not saying that you NEED all that, I’m saying all those things cost money. The hardtop is overpriced that’s true though.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 14:04

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Pro4x has 32’s stock as well however. I really went back and forth on the decision between the two when I was shopping, but really in the end I could add those things you just mentioned and still come out cheaper. I don’t even have the rear sway on the thing, they don’t particularly do much on Xterras in the rear anyway.

Now, if i coulda found one of them real fancy Dragon edition jeeps, obviously I would be rolling in high class.

HammerheadFistpunch > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/04/2015 at 14:16

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I should say that I think the Xterra is an amazing value, that said I didn’t buy one when I was shopping around. I didn’t buy a jeep either but I was considering an Xterra long and hard.

I tried to find the tire size stock on the pro 4x and it says they are 265/70r16 but it looks like the pro4x gets the larger (265/75r16 - 31.5 inch) AT hankook instead. The jeep tire is bigger, only by half an inch, but its a much better BFG mud terrain to the AT Hankook. I would say its still about a $80 per tire difference.

I don’t fault your choice on the Xterra, but I will say that the Xterra is a Value, where the Wrangler is just not overpriced.

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 14:22

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Fair enough. Now we can all go back to talking about how awesome land cruisers are. Here’s a wild FJ60 that guards my driveway:

HammerheadFistpunch > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/04/2015 at 14:25

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I love that color on the 60. 5 speed or 4 speed?

Eberle-Hills-Cop > HammerheadFistpunch 08/04/2015 at 14:26

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4 speed. Desmogged though so it’s REALLY UNCORKED THOSE PONIES.

HammerheadFistpunch > Eberle-Hills-Cop 08/04/2015 at 14:30

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all 155 raging Americo/Japanese Ponies!